"Upstream" with Erik Torenberg

• E124: How to Have A Philosophical Marriage w/ Agnes Callard and Arnold Brooks

  Today on Upstream, we’re releasing an episode from Modern Relationships which originally aired on February 28, 2025 where Erik Torenberg interviews philosophy professors Agnes Callard and Arnold Brooks about their unconventional marriage, the role of philosophy in their relationship, the impact of their public profile, and how they balance personal and philosophical life together. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess  🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse    — RECOMMENDED PODCASTS:  🎙️Check out Modern Relationships, where Erik Torenberg interviews tech power couples and leading thinkers to explore how ambitious people actually make partnerships work. This season's guests include: Delian Asparouhov & Nadia Asparouhova, Kristen Berman & Phil Levin, Rob Henderson, and Liv Boeree & Igor Kurganov. Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1786227593  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hJzs0gDg6lRT6r10mdpVg  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernRelationshipsPod  — SPONSORS: ☁️ Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. OCI has four to eight times the bandwidth of other clouds and offers one consistent price. Oracle is offering to cut your cloud bill in half. See if your company qualifies at oracle.com/turpentine  🎯 Say goodbye to the headaches of out-of-home advertising. AdQuick combines technology, OOH expertise, and data to enable efficient, seamless ad buying across the globe. Visit adquick.com to start reaching your customers in the real world. 🕵️‍♂️ Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code UPSTREAM at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: https://incogni.com/upstream 💥 Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/  and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist. — LINKS: New Yorker article on Agnes and Arnold, by Rachel Aviv: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/03/13/agnes-callard-profile-marriage-philosophy Agnes Callard: https://philosophy.uchicago.edu/faculty/a-callard Arnold Brooks: https://philosophy.uchicago.edu/arnold-brooks  Pre-order Agnes Callard's new book Open Socrates: https://wwnorton.com/books/open-socrates  Agnes Callard on Upstream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JotaCsaG3Y  — X / TWITTER: @AgnesCallard @eriktorenberg @turpentinemedia — HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE EPISODE: Agnes Callard and Arnold Brooks are philosophy professors at University of Chicago who met when she was his teacher, leading to her divorce from Ben and marriage to Arnold. Agnes was initially attracted to Arnold's remarkable ability to interpret Aristotle, which she considered more impressive than conventional attractive qualities. Arnold was drawn to Agnes as a "fellow philosopher" in a specific way he hadn't experienced with anyone else before. Their philosophical disagreement centers on whether marriage is something achievable to build upon (Arnold's view) or an indefinite pursuit toward an ideal that may be beyond reach (Agnes's view). Agnes provocatively stated "marriage is a preparation for divorce" - not meaning marriages should end, but that relationships require navigating difficult circumstances. They maintain an unusual living arrangement where Agnes, Arnold, and her ex-husband Ben all live together and co-parent. Arnold says his primary attraction is simply witnessing Agnes's way of living, which doesn't require reciprocation. They caution against basing relationships solely on reciprocal goods (I support you, you support me). Their approach to raising "interesting" children involves asking them abstract questions rather than concrete ones. Their New Yorker profile brought public attention that Agnes believes says more about readers' fascination than about their actual relationship.

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• E123: Trump & The Game of Populism w/ Samo Burja

  Erik Torenberg and Samo Burja discuss the limitations of populist politics, the difficulty populists face in effecting change despite electoral wins, and the influence of digital democracy on modern governance. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess  🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse    — RECOMMENDED PODCASTS:  🎙️Live Players Samo Burja and Erik Torenberg provide analysis of the news and case studies of Live Players, as well as key institutions and technologies that make up the global power landscape. Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/live-players-with-samo-burja-and-erik-torenberg/id1718925188    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5fbMTkHBnom1JIBWYNVBK1?si=01ed191c74264f55   Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@LivePlayerswithSamoBurja   — SPONSORS: ☁️ Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. OCI has four to eight times the bandwidth of other clouds and offers one consistent price. Oracle is offering to cut your cloud bill in half. See if your company qualifies at oracle.com/turpentine  🎯 Say goodbye to the headaches of out-of-home advertising. AdQuick combines technology, OOH expertise, and data to enable efficient, seamless ad buying across the globe. Visit adquick.com to start reaching your customers in the real world. 🕵️‍♂️ Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code UPSTREAM at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: https://incogni.com/upstream 💥 Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/  and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist. — LINKS: Bismark Analysis: https://brief.bismarckanalysis.com/ — X / TWITTER: @samoburja @eriktorenberg @turpentinemedia — HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE EPISODE: Populists win elections but struggle to govern effectively against entrenched bureaucracies. Modern populism confronts administrative states, unlike historical populism that opposed monarchies. The administrative state was ironically strengthened by early 20th century populist movements. Case studies (Hungary, Brexit) show winning elections doesn't guarantee successful implementation. Trump faces resistance from within the Republican Party, limiting his appointment power. Elon Musk and X.com provide Trump stronger tools than he had in 2016. Left populism offers direct benefits while right populism promises protection from threats. Samo suggests tech elites could pool money to counter traditional Republican donors' influence. Future Democratic success may come from candidates combining progressive policies with family-oriented messaging. Populism emerged through internet's bypass of traditional media gatekeepers. Western democracies need a new balance between populist movements and administrative institutions.

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  59:15
• E122: Victor Davis Hanson on What Trump Thinks of Zelensky and Predicting Geopolitics

  In this Upstream episode, Erik Torenberg sits down with military historian Victor Davis Hanson. They discuss the future of Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan, the evolution of the American left, and Donald Trump's potential future legacy.  — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess  🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse  — SPONSORS: ☁️Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. OCI has four to eight times the bandwidth of other clouds and offers one consistent price. Oracle is offering to cut your cloud bill in half. See if your company qualifies at oracle.com/turpentine  🎯 Say goodbye to the headaches of out-of-home advertising. AdQuick combines technology, OOH expertise, and data to enable efficient, seamless ad buying across the globe. Visit adquick.com to start reaching your customers in the real world. 🕵️‍♂️ Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code UPSTREAM at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: https://incogni.com/upstream 💥 Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/  and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist. — LINKS: Official site: https://victorhanson.com/   The Victor Davis Hanson podcast: https://victorhanson.com/podcasts/   Hoover Institution - featured publications and videos: https://www.hoover.org/profiles/victor-davis-hanson  Erik's substack: https://eriktorenberg.substack.com/  — X / TWITTER: @VDHanson @eriktorenberg @turpentinemedia — HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE EPISODE: Trump's second term will likely be less chaotic due to appointees who align with his agenda. The Republican party is now more unified without "Never Trumpers." Trump expanded his coalition by winning significant portions of Hispanic and Black male votes. JD Vance is positioned as a strong 2028 candidate due to his background and communication skills. Europe will likely move politically rightward due to economic and defense inadequacies. Germany maintains trade surpluses while not meeting NATO defense spending requirements. The US-European relationship has become unbalanced with Europeans criticizing while depending on American defense. The Ukraine-Russia conflict will likely end with a DMZ rather than Ukraine reclaiming all territory. Putin invaded Ukraine because he perceived weakness in US leadership. Western interference in Ukrainian politics contributed to tensions. Trump's peace plan includes strategic investment in Ukrainian minerals near the DMZ. There's inconsistency in how the US approaches Ukraine versus Israel regarding civilian casualties. China is less likely to invade Taiwan compared to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Pacific allies are actively rearming against Chinese threats. New warfare technologies like drones may prove more effective for Taiwan's defense than traditional carriers. Israel struggles to convert tactical victories into strategic resolution. "Abraham Accords" allies have complex motivations including concerns about Iran. Western democracies struggle with asymmetric warfare and maintaining resolve for definitive victory. Democrats should return to Clinton-era policies on borders, crime, and budgets. Democrats are controlled by a hard left with positions only 20% of Americans support. Trump is transforming American politics from race-based to class-based coalition building. Republicans are becoming "the party of the middle class" while Democrats represent coastal elites and the subsidized poor.

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  37:51
• E121: Kevin Kelly on What Makes Us Human in an AI World

  In this episode of Upstream, we’re releasing Erik Torenberg’s interview from 2023 with Kevin Kelly, founding executive editor of Wired Magazine, discussing Kevin’s new advice book, the impact of gratitude, and how technology, especially AI, interacts with and shapes human existence and culture. — 📰Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess  🙏Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse    — RECOMMENDED PODCASTS:  🎙️ Second Opinion Join Christina Farr, Ash Zenooz and Luba Greenwood as they bring influential entrepreneurs, experts and investors into the ring for candid conversations at the frontlines of healthcare and digital health every week. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0A8NwQE976s32zdBbZw6bv  Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/second-opinion-with-christina-farr-ash-zenooz-md-luba/id1759267211  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@SecondOpinionwithChristinaFarr — SPONSORS: ☁️Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. OCI has four to eight times the bandwidth of other clouds and offers one consistent price. Oracle is offering to cut your cloud bill in half. See if your company qualifies at oracle.com/turpentine  🎯Say goodbye to the headaches of out-of-home advertising. AdQuick combines technology, OOH expertise, and data to enable efficient, seamless ad buying across the globe. Visit adquick.com to start reaching your customers in the real world. 🕵️‍♂️Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code UPSTREAM at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: https://incogni.com/upstream 💥 Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/  and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist. — LINKS: Kevin Kelly's book: Excellent Advice for Living: https://www.amazon.com/Excellent-Advice-Living-Wisdom-Earlier/dp/0593654528  — X / TWITTER: @kevin2kelly @eriktorenberg @turpentinemedia — HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE EPISODE: Kevin Kelly published an advice book featuring "telegraphic aphorisms" rather than stories, which better suits his style. Kevin believes gratitude unlocks all virtues by connecting us to others through recognizing what we've been given. Emotional responses work faster than logical thinking, which is why people remember how you made them feel more than what you said. Reflecting on what irritates you in others can provide valuable insight into understanding yourself. Humans are "opaque to themselves," lacking clear understanding of their own minds and motivations. Kevin disputes overpopulation concerns, warning instead about future population collapse. According to Kelly, the joy of having children compounds, and he's never met anyone who regretted having more children. Kevin views speciation of humans as more likely to come through genetic engineering than cyborg technology. Kevin dismisses rapid AI takeover fears as "comic book fantasy," arguing that intelligence alone doesn't guarantee dominance. The concept of "we've invented our humanity" refers to language, cooking, domestication, and other technologies that shaped human evolution. Kevin predicts AI will help us understand our own intelligence better, forcing us to reconsider concepts like creativity. Most effective systems combine mostly decentralized elements with small amounts of centralized control. Silicon Valley's contribution to culture includes "demoralizing failure" – reframing it as a necessary component of progress. Small, managed failures prevent catastrophic ones and should be viewed as learning experiences. Kelly embraces the concept of "fail forward" – treating failures as stepping stones rather than endpoints.

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  50:16
• E120: Why Europe Matters for America’s Future w/ Samo Burja

  This week on Upstream, Erik Torenberg and Samo Burja discuss the widespread interest in U.S. politics and its global influence, particularly in Western and European countries, the internet's role in synchronizing political and cultural norms, and potential changes in European political landscapes influenced by American ideologies and media. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess  🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse    — RECOMMENDED PODCASTS:  🎙️Live Players Samo Burja and Erik Torenberg provide analysis of the news and case studies of Live Players, as well as key institutions and technologies that make up the global power landscape. Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/live-players-with-samo-burja-and-erik-torenberg/id1718925188    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5fbMTkHBnom1JIBWYNVBK1?si=01ed191c74264f55   Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@LivePlayerswithSamoBurja  🎙️ Second Opinion Join Christina Farr, Ash Zenooz and Luba Greenwood as they bring influential entrepreneurs, experts and investors into the ring for candid conversations at the frontlines of healthcare and digital health every week. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0A8NwQE976s32zdBbZw6bv  Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/second-opinion-with-christina-farr-ash-zenooz-md-luba/id1759267211  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@SecondOpinionwithChristinaFarr — SPONSORS: ☁️ Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. OCI has four to eight times the bandwidth of other clouds and offers one consistent price. Oracle is offering to cut your cloud bill in half. See if your company qualifies at oracle.com/turpentine  🎯 Say goodbye to the headaches of out-of-home advertising. AdQuick combines technology, OOH expertise, and data to enable efficient, seamless ad buying across the globe. Visit adquick.com to start reaching your customers in the real world. 🕵️‍♂️ Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code UPSTREAM at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: https://incogni.com/upstream 💥 Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/  and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist. — LINKS: Two buttons meme: https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.2365085899.3351/st,small,507x507-pad,600x600,f8f8f8.jpg  The Clash of Civilizations: https://www.amazon.com/Clash-Civilizations-Remaking-World-Order/dp/1451628978  Bismark Analysis: https://brief.bismarckanalysis.com/ — X / TWITTER: @SamoBurja @eriktorenberg @turpentinemedia

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  1:00:10

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